People are practically being black-bagged in Portland.

"NKato" (NKato) 07/17/2020 at 00:34 • Filed to: None

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No matter where you fall on the political spectrum as an American, this should concern everyone very deeply. Trump’s Federal agencies are going out of control in Portland, Oregon.

There is only ONE reputable news outlet reporting on this. National news has remained absolutely stone-silent about this.

And what’s even more troubling? Those anti-government militias who made such a huge stink about liberty and the Constitution in regards to government overreach aren’t even speaking up about this, which shows an astounding-yet-predictable double standard.

If you live in Oregon, call the Governor. At this point I feel like the ONLY thing that can stop this absolute fuckery is the National Guard - send them in to corral the Feds and keep them from violating the Constitution any further.

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Update; Check out this statement by acting DHS Secretary “Chad Wolf”.

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Notice anything about the language...?

fintail > NKato 07/17/2020 at 00:53

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Back around the little spate of looting, there were numerous “unmarked” (but hilariously obvious) trucks dawdling around downtown Bellevue, some of them doing a better job of driving than others (no accountability, do what you please, retire with a plump pension at a relatively young age ). Haven’t seen them for several weeks, I wonder if they moved south.

One should expect nothing but hypocrisy from 3%er type simps. I’d love to see a state national guard and city/state police make it impossible for the orange-created Gestapo to blindly adhere to orders (many brave praetorian warriors drool at the thought of such situations, no doubt) - I have some doubts they would, given some of the clueless social media statements out there. Maybe the National Guard would be better than police for that.

NKato > fintail 07/17/2020 at 00:55

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The city police aren’t helping matters in Portland, either. They’re tackling completely innocuous bikers in an OPEN intersection, and being a bunch of fascistic chodes, too.

The conditions in Portland is ripe for a true disaster of spectacular proportions, and nobody seems to even fucking realize it.

fintail > NKato 07/17/2020 at 01:01

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Color me surprised. So many dumb social media incidents show a common mentality. Not all, but enough to be a problem and a danger, as people will be harmed.   

The legal costs and settlements alone from this are going to be yuuuuuge - tax money down the shitter, slaps on the wrist at best.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > NKato 07/17/2020 at 01:17

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What are these people being arrested for, and can they even be charged with anything?

NKato > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 07/17/2020 at 01:36

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According to the article, the protesters being “black bagged”, are being driven into a Courthouse, “arraigned” and interrogated — when they ask for a lawyer, they’re released without charges, and no paperwork.

It’s an intimidation tactic, and a fishing expedition for the Feds.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > NKato 07/17/2020 at 01:40

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So pathetic.  And this administration dares talk morals to Hong Kong.  This is much worse than anything that ever happened over there.

NKato > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 07/17/2020 at 01:42

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Actually, China has actually done worse. They’ve repatriated people they consider threats out of HK and into the Mainland where they’ve disappeared. Here in Portland, it’s like a “mini-me” version of that, mostly because we still have a functioning Judiciary.

And the Feds know they would absolutely get reamed by the SCOTUS over this if it got to that point.

NKato > fintail 07/17/2020 at 01:44

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I have no doubt about that -- assuming the Judiciary survives Trump’s presidency.

DipodomysDeserti > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 07/17/2020 at 01:51

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No, it’s definitely not as bad as China.

Everyone knows China is a nightmare of a regime, which is why we don’t want to end up like them.

fintail > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 07/17/2020 at 01:53

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Murka, on some federal levels especially, is a real shitshow, but not quite to the levels of extraordinary rendition (or outright vanishing) practiced by the PRC kleptocracy.

Nick Has an Exocet > NKato 07/17/2020 at 01:58

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$23 million in losses due to looting and rioting

Barricading of streets

“ P ersonal information of officers has been released online, while rioters have assaulted law enforcement with hammers, lasers, slingshots and fireworks, while others have been armed with sledgehammers, tasers and “flaming debris.””

and protesters are like “I have no idea why we’re being detained!”

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland

The tactics being using by federal agents in this case are clearly anti-terrorism tactics. Not saying that I agree with using those tactics in this case, but it’s fairly clear that Portland has been completely destabilized and something has to be done. At this point, I’m growing increasingly concerned that Russian or Chinese money is helping fuel protests.

https://www.rebelnews.com/china_invites_antifa_for_talks

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > NKato 07/17/2020 at 01:59

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Honestly that’s an issue with China at the national level and not specifically Hong Kong, though. Chinese agents have rounded up people as far away as Thailand (Gui Minhai, 2015) and brought them to the mainland for interrogation.

Trump’s administration, however, chooses to make it about Hong Kong because they know it pisses China off.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > DipodomysDeserti 07/17/2020 at 02:04

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I don’t disagree about China—I don’t think anyone in ‘Murica wants to be like China.  They have their history and we have ours--not mutually exchangeable.

NKato > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 02:09

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“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.” - JFK.

It’s a nugget of truth. And I seriously doubt the protests have any real involvement through foreign interference. They’re all grassroots, and they all have made efforts to eliminate “opps” — people who pretend to be on the protesters’ side, but are actually on the government’s side. (I’ve seen this happen in Seattle)

And that bit about “China inviting Antifa”? It’s gaslighting, it’s all a lie, a posture — know why? Because “real” Antifa is decentralized. They don’t talk to the government, and certainly not the Chinese government. Whoever takes up the Chinese invitation is immediately outing themselves as a foreign agent to the real protesters.

The “anti-terrorism” tactics? Authorized under the travesty that is the Patriot Act . It was meant to be for foreign enemies within and without, not American Citizens protesting against systemic abuses.

$23 million is small fucking peanuts when you compare it to the systemic violation of civil rights, the systemic violation of the United States Constitution, and the systemic racism rife in the law enforcement “industry”.

As for the Doxxing, it’s an inevitable outcome when police officers choose to tackle and abuse people completely unprovoked.

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You want people to respect the police? Get the police to respect the people .

P.S. Rebel News is a right-wing outlet about on the same level as the New York Post. It’s a rag.

SmugAardvark > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 02:21

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but it’s fairly clear that Portland has been completely destabilized and something has to be done.

From what I’ve seen and read, this is all occurring within a pretty limited area around the Justice Center . So I think it’s an overstatement to say the entire city has been completely destabilized.

And I’m sorry, but I don’t believe anything Chad Wolf says. He has seemingly automatically deemed anyone out past 10pm as a “violent anarchist”, even if they are not at the protests.

jrpdx2 > NKato 07/17/2020 at 03:38

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The “$23 million in losses due to looting and rioting” was debunked by the Oregonian N ewspaper:

“ $23 million cited as Portland protest damages was mostly tied to coronavirus closures”

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/coronavirus-closures-inflated-23-million-reported-in-downtown-portland-protest-damages.html

sony1492 > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 05:25

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How can we forget that antifa is an anti fascism movement? Considering our current politics anti fascism is more important then ever, to pick the opposite side is to be part of the problem.

Us ing tactics that were unethical to begin with, are still un ethical when they apply them to civil unrest within our borders. Unrest that exists for a reason, we should be Furious, we should demand reforms from our government

Thisismydisplayname > NKato 07/17/2020 at 09:11

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Holy hyperbolic language Batman!  Mob, anarchists, siege....  what the actual fuck?  Talk about editorializing.  Yeah you can state the facts, but you don’t need to add the descriptors like they have.  

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Thisismydisplayname 07/17/2020 at 09:38

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I read the article last but didn’t see Wolf’s release until this morning. The language is concerning, especially using the category of anarchist so often. The state is trying to other American citizens in order to allow it to be conceptually acceptable to apply the terrorism discourse to them. 

Grindintosecond > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 09:43

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Employing Brown Shirt activities in our own country is over the line.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > jrpdx2 07/17/2020 at 09:48

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I’m always astounded at the government’s ability to blatantly lie. Lying about things that are easily proven false, and that can be simply and quickly demonstrated to be true. ‘ the media‘ which is intended to expose those lies, has either not been able to or chosen not to do so . Many people seem to simply not care about the lies either.

This isn’t to say the US gov is innocent of lying until now, but that the current regime’s lying is blatant, which I think is new. It’s really Orwellian, the government lies, anyone who cares know they lie and they can prove it,  and there’s not much anyone can do about it.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 09:54

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Sorry, that’s not how due process works in the USA. Cops don’t get to treat everyone as guilty, they don’t get to assume their association with criminal groups, and they sure as shit don’t get to arrest people for their speech(assuming no other actions by the person).

I went during the day on Juneteenth and walked in a match with my daughter. Are you saying because other people in my city have destroyed and looted the cops would have been justified in rolling up and throwing me in a van and detaining me? Lots and lots and lots of protestors have been non destructive and even those that have deserve constitutional rights. I’m amazed at how quickly some people turn a blind eye to the loss of  rights of others they disagree with.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 10:17

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Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. The “protesters” here (I live in Portland) that are fucking shit up the most have been tied to right wing assholes trying to make actual protesters look bad. Police have been caught on video here playing favorites with the proud boys warning them before using teargas, then gassing children. Police are consistently starting the violence here. Police are continually escalating. There are plenty of videos of this floating around ou r community And I personally know people who’ve been at the protests and others who live in protest areas and seen the shit go down. The story is consistent, the cops are the aggressors. Any weapons actual protesters have are sticks and stones that won’t do shit to cops in riot gear with actual guns and gas. And if you don’t think rubber bullets and bean bag rounds aren’t that dangerous, ask Brad Levi Ayala, or any of many other people who’ve been permanently disabled, disfigured, or killed by them. Police here in Portland have been known to be corrupt, arrogant, power- hungry dickwads for many decades.

Saying Portland is completely destabilized is some bullshit too. Life continues as normal for most of the population here, especially during the day. I work blocks from the justice center and have only come across anything heavy once. It was late at night, after I’d normally be in bed, but I had to stop at work briefly. There were cops blasting gas a block over. Easy to avoid, and there were no traces of it the next morning. Some actual protesters and BLM leaders are regularly o community clean ups to pick up after the mess that protests make.

Thisismydisplayname > NKato 07/17/2020 at 10:25

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The Washington post just picked up the story.

BigBlock440 > sony1492 07/17/2020 at 10:32

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How can we forget that antifa is an anti fascism movement? Considering our current politics anti fascism is more important then ever, to pick the opposite side is to be part of the problem.

The same way we can forget that the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea is a democratic republic belonging to the people.

Thisismydisplayname > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 07/17/2020 at 10:43

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Yeah, it’s pretty screwed up.  

BigBlock440 > NKato 07/17/2020 at 10:51

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There is only ONE reputable news outlet reporting on this. National news has remained absolutely stone-silent about this.

And what’s even more troubling? Those anti-government militias who made such a huge stink about liberty and the Constitution in regards to government overreach aren’t even speaking up about this, which shows an astounding-yet-predictable double standard.

Do they even know about it? If there’s only one station reporting on it, presumably those people wouldn’t be in the area anymore to experience it firsthand, how would anyone know? This is literally the first I’m hearing of it. The feds have a history of escalation though, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Philadelphia,Harney County, etc.  Hopefully it won’t go that far this time.

fintail > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 10:54

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LOL about personal information. Remember the shitbird mayor of St Louis .

Rebelnews? Forfuckingreals?

North of center lol

PatBateman > NKato 07/17/2020 at 11:08

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I say pull all federal law enforcement out of Portland/ the surrounding areas and let the rioters do as they may. If the good people of Oregon are good with the destruction , who am I to tell them that they’re wrong?

I’ll be down here watching the video streams, eating popcorn.  

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > NKato 07/17/2020 at 11:34

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/13/portland-protester-injured-federal/

There were stories earlier in the week, when it was mostly talk of sending agents in.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2020 at 13:05

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“C ivil unrest” can be so decentralised that instigators will keep starting sh*t even when the cause of the original protest is obsoleted (my favourite example is Hong Kong of 2019 , which transitioned from mass protest into small , frequent riots ). I’m not saying that this is the case in Portland yet, but most other metro areas have calmed down with BLM murals, some feel-good promises and a lot of Karen-ing .

Once instigators have gained the momentum to start unrest without any legitimate reason, the next logical step is to escalate the use of force, which will thin the repeat crowd . This is where Portland’s Fed groups deviate , resorting to intimidation tactics such as the arbitrary kidnappings described here. Honestly this is self-defeating and will make people come back out onto the street in legitimate protest.

I suspect there’s a small, radical crowd in Portland that won’t stop until more casualties are seen, or they lose critical mass .

Hong Kong’s cops have their hands tied—they can’t be seen as overbearing or “Communist” so they are stuck with warn, warn, warn, gas , chase and catch as many as they can. IMO the radical crowd will not stop until enough are captured .

It’s an ugly, ugly game that feeds itself and only sows more division in the community.

RangerSmith > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 07/17/2020 at 13:29

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It hasn’t been confirmed at the public level . But there is credible evidence that China has kidnapped people from western Europe, Australia, as well as the US.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 07/17/2020 at 13:33

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In Portland, the cause still stands. Police are openly “defying” the governor’s orders and using gas etc, making excuses and saying they’re following her guidelines. But it’s bullshit. The cops keep escalating and digging in their heels. In other cities, they’re at least taking steps to back down police aggression or defund. There’s only one or two Portland city commissioners actively trying to do that here, and the mayor is proving to be basically useless. Police here have put on a show of kneeling to stand down, then moments later quickly p put gas masks on and blast gas at protesters. It’s no secret here that many cops are far right wing. If the protests stop, then the far right cops and proud boys will feel emboldened. This state has a deep and long running history of extreme racism. That shit cannot be tolerated any longer. Portland has been seen as a liberal oasis and bastion of civil rights to many, but the rest of the state is very very red (except for parts of Eugene and maybe a little of Salem). It’s people who aren’t from Portland that drive in, Trump flags waving from the top of their coal rolling trucks, and head to protests to incite violence. When this shit first started happening, I myself saw “caravans” of such trucks rolling into downtown late in the evenings, with Washington plates. Clark county Washington is 15 minutes from downtown Portland without traffic, and also very very red. There were warnings all over the Portland subreddit talking about trucks like this and where they were spotted.

Look, I'm not saying the anti-fascist movement isn't sometimes causing some shit or going too far, but by and large it is not anti-fascist protesters causing/starting things people are seeing in the media.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 07/17/2020 at 13:37

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We’re definitely not as bad as Hong Kong. Yet.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > BigBlock440 07/17/2020 at 13:43

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But only one of those is a misnomer. I don’t think antifa is a cohesive organization, and I don’t agree with what ‘their people’ do, but I never had doubts about their anti-fascist goals being genuine. I wasn’t aware others disagreed 

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > RangerSmith 07/17/2020 at 13:45

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I wouldn’t be surprised—if they want someone badly enough, it’s easiest when that person is within reach of an unregistered boat.

RangerSmith > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 13:52

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I agree. There is a lot of stuff from done in the name of anti-terrorism and freedom; that doesn’t look like Constitutional freedom. Yet, we still look at our political system through a lens of tribalism. Everyone needs to take a hard look in the mirror and actually look at who we vote for at the local levels with as much scrutiny as who we vote for President. People forget(or weren’t old enough/paying enough attention) that the original idea behind the Tea Party wasn’t Republican or Democrat . It was a push to get non-career politicians involved in our politics again.

Yes China and some of our own politicians have a shared interest in destabilizing the US. Are they connected somehow? I really hope not. But we can’t continue to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that everything will be okay.

I really appreciate your posts and discussions on here Nick. Don’t let other commenters shout you down.

RangerSmith > NKato 07/17/2020 at 13:58

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https://apnews.com/d2ad086bcc2f4cf38e9bc41b944adcec

Forest through the trees, my friend. There is a peaceful revolution going on right now. Seems to me that there are people willing to take advantage of George Floyd’s death to try and slow it or stop it.

RangerSmith > sony1492 07/17/2020 at 14:01

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Just because the name says anti fascism, doesn’t mean that it is.

NKato > PatBateman 07/17/2020 at 14:52

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Cognitive dissonance much, Pat?

PatBateman > NKato 07/17/2020 at 15:36

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Not at all! I won’t tell the guy on the other side of the neighborhood to not have an all out rager, including cars doing donuts in his front lawn and party guests pulling plants out of their landscape/chucking them through their window, at their house! I’ll tell him that he SHOULDN’T do that, it would be a BAD IDEA to do that, but I won’t tell him that he CAN’T.

I’d also say that, if he chooses this epic house party route, he cannot call the police to handle the crowd/fights, can’t have insurance pay for the damage caused, and can’t have the HOA deal with the tire ruts in part of his turf.

If the people of Oregon want the rioters, they can have the rioters. They don’t want the feds around, then the feds should pull out. They also shouldn’t get any funds to repair the damages or access to national guard troops to control the crowds if they get too out of control. It’s their state, their city; if they want to let the rager get out of control, let it burn.

I’ll be watching from afar.  With snacks.

NKato > PatBateman 07/17/2020 at 15:54

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You’re delusional.

BigBlock440 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 07/17/2020 at 16:16

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I don’t agree that North Korea is democratic.

Why would anyone think their anti-facist goals were genuine when all they did was stir up shit and cause violence at political rallies?

fintail > NKato 07/17/2020 at 16:18

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Funniest thing about that argument is that the vast majority of locals appear to want the federal praetorian heroes to get the fuck out of town. There’s ZERO evidence the brave warriors are actually making anything better, or that there is any really significant “destruction” being prevented, or occurring without the 21st century gestapo.

I’d think someone from Texas, which is so fond of shootings and is a kind of weird second world quality of life, wouldn’t cast stones at others.

PatBateman > NKato 07/17/2020 at 16:39

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Just to recap:

You post about how the US Marshals are in Portland picking protestors up off the streets and how bad it is.

I post how the feds need to pull out of Oregon.

You post that I’m not consistent with my beliefs (which I’m still not sure where you came up with that, do you think I’m a hard core conservative or something?).

I post that, because the city of Portland has always ignored the (some times violent) antics of Antifa and of protestors, then they obviously don’t care about the damage/havoc the riots are causing, so the federal government should abide by their wishes and stand down (thus agreeing with you that the federal government shouldn’t be arresting protestors/rioters) and leave the state.

You say that I’m delusional.

I AGREED WITH YOU.  The only thing I added was that, if Oregon is cool with protestors going nuts and turning into rioters, then they can’t rely on federal funds/military personnel to clear up the problems.

stuckMTB > NKato 07/17/2020 at 18:37

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Yikes, that’s absolutely disgusting behavior from those who are supposed to ‘protect and serve’ ... abhorrent.

NKato > PatBateman 07/17/2020 at 20:37

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You’re only “agreeing” on principle with the attitude that Portland seems to “deserve” the rioting. Hence the popcorn.

That’s why I said you were delusional.

Taking such an attitude where you seem to want to watch protesters fail is counterproductive. The reality is that law enforcement is a failed institution, and instead of focusing on that you’re focusing on the whole “rioters” narrative.

That’s what I call misdirection and an attempt at deflection. You’re not helping the country be a better place.

NKato > Thisismydisplayname 07/17/2020 at 20:50

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I noticed. And CNN just put a by-line in a column on their website about the video of the protester abduction. But no real hard questions.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Nick Has an Exocet 07/17/2020 at 21:10

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I think this is an interesting parallel with unrest elsewhere in the world, albeit on a smaller scale.

Portland is in a gray zone where people disagree on the path forward. Laws weren’t written to specifically address repeated unrest, at what point is it unacceptable to the community? At what point is a military or national intervention warranted? At what point are these “autonomous protest zones” considered “seditious”?

The Constitution doesn’t address a group of instigators who are constantly provoking unrest for no legitimate reason. But it also doesn’t address a reckless administration that has trouble believing in science and acts to silence people attempting to speak the truth about various issues. That includes sending federal agents to suppress non-life-threatening activities without sufficient consultation.

fintail > NKato 07/17/2020 at 21:33

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I wonder how many of the protesters are proud boys/3%er types working likely with some type of federal help, via praetorian sector payroll or something more sinister.

If Portland gets no federal help, then certain red states can receive similar zero help to compensate for their glorified caste system economies.

PatBateman > NKato 07/17/2020 at 21:44

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So you’re saying that Portland leadership doesn’t have a history of letting rioters do what they want? Or when a leader starts seeing that maybe they made a mistake, the MAJORITY of their city council blocks them from allowing police to stop them? I’m not delusional; I just pay attention because I have family that has lived there for 40 years.

I feel horrible for Portland PD. They’re given an impossible task: keep the peace, even when the masses loot and try to burn your office to the ground. And what does the mayor do? He remarks that all of this violence is stopping the city from reform, but leadership allows a violent few destroy without ramifications and give the ACTUAL protestors a bad name.

So yes, I think that Portland’s leadership has allowed this wound to fester unabated, and yes, I think the feds should completely pull out of the area because they are not wanted by the mayor, the city council, the citizens who voted them in, and the rioters who are trying to destroy federal property.  Town Hall wants to deal with it in a different manner, even if that means more riots making the actual protestors call for peace.

And after listening to the Mayor’s press conference today, I’d say that he would agree with me.